About the same time we get Steam with Wayland support:

“When the sun rises in the West and sets in the East. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.”

deleted by creator

Bridgman is an extremely talented dude who’s contributions bettered the entire industry. I really hope he enjoys his retirement, and continues to post in the forums over at Phoronix. The guy is extremely thick skinned but laidback and incredibly friendly despite all the flame wars and trolling.

Heck of a nice guy who did some really great work for Linux, Linux Gaming, and gaming overall. nVidia users benefitted greatly from AMD’s surge in competitive software.

It sucks you had an experience like that with the community. There are elitists and then just big jerks. What communities often fail at is a groupthink issue where they have a solution to a problem that’s extraneous to most people, but they accept it as “well duh, RTFM”.

Their project’s goal seems to be the adoption of use, broad use and in turn contribution. The problem is their attitudes toward problems that still need to be resolved, and the release management combined with stability is a common problem in much more than just Endeavor’s community. You see the issue in Pop!, Nobara, Arch, and even Ubuntu. You even see this BIGTIME in Gnome and to a lesser degree KDE.

A Gnome developer will tell you that you should just use it their way, and not expect basic shit to work, where at least KDE puts it for consideration on their own end to fix or develop.

What I’m getting at in short though is the prevailing attitude of elitism being shitty. That being said, there are people who fall into the “time vampire” group of people who will get pointed toward a solution, but not have the capacity to intuit other basic functions and it pisses people off. Nobody deserves to be treated poorly, but the fine line is out there where it’s up to a user to figure their stuff out. From what you describe, updates breaking the user experience falls solidly on their package maintainers fucking their release schedule in the ass, then having an elitist attitude about how to fix it. They’d just as well keep on trucking and treat people poorly for stuff that their own teams broke, to which I respond, fuck those asshole motherfuckers.

That to me sounds like their wayland by default setup, which is really more about the wayland ecosystem and reliance on xwayland (although firefox is suppose to launch wayland native on Nobara with KDE).

I’m aware of a few quirks, but that sounds pretty specific. My experience with all DE’s right now has me pretty negative on Linux overall until we get fully migrated to wayland sessions with explicit sync working…and that’s a year off at least.

To be honest, the default themes for many DE’s are actually pretty tasteful. Just vanilla Arch isn’t bad if you don’t mind running the pacman update command. I honestly recommend Nobara for people who want stability and point/click updates.

Endeavor is more like hobbyist UI purist, and not that well optimized. Arch is insanely optimized, as well as Nobara. I would recommend Ubuntu but, Snaps. Pop would be great if their major rebase was further along, so options are pretty limited. We’re in a weird transition right now as far as the major distros and overall performance metrics.

They do a decent job of piggy backing on Arch’s work, and loading quite a few things OOB for gaming. That being said, I don’t recommend them due to their instability and issues with the overall project (failing on cert renewals, their withholding of stable packages from Arch but allowing AUR access and causing breakage, poor release schedule, and cherry picking of newer packages for “shiny things” without the diligence to maintain their library compatibility, etc etc).

That being said, their theming and UI taste is actually really good. It was a much more robust project back in 2019 and 2020, but on the technical side they’re lacking severely despite having great taste from a theming standpoint. They’ve fallen pretty far in the court of public opinion.

I think that was understood, and I’m also of the opinion that Facebook is full of shit.

The KDE guys have been on fire for the past two years. Between their theming, color selection, and session handling they’ve come a long ways. They’ve also implemented some gnome-only features such as the overview, albeit in a very optional way. As opposed to eliminating a panel and forcing you to use the overview to see what applications or windows you have open, or available to launch, it’s just a window management tool instead of a UX paradigm.

Their wayland session is stable and also deals with xwayland in a very different way. If you set a custom scaling factor, the QT apps and GTK apps are talked to in a way that makes the same scaling factor consistent across all your applications, even under a wayland session with xwayland. The Gnome devs hand-wring about how the world has to be perfect before implementing an idea, where the KDE devs try something and then iterate if it’s successful.

• Calling the Arch Wiki contributor’s clowns
• The public tantrum with System76 because of the poor attitudes on the part of the Gnome project
• The Gnome way: stop making shell extensions and contribute to the Shell or get fucked.
• The overall attitude of the devs regarding user opinions, resulting in the plethora of extensions available, and the tone deaf attitude regarding all of them.
• The world must be perfect before we do jack shit about fractional scaling, despite people moving to HiDPI/4K monitors.

Trundle on over to KDE-land, and you find a very different tone. They’re not too proud to adopt paradigms that conflicted with core design principles if they’re widely beloved (look at Overview as a prime example). Fractional scaling is miles ahead of Gnome in functionality and performance impact, solved in both X11 and elegantly in Wayland so that xwayland apps have a hook to get correct DPI info without looking blurry. The deep customizations available have negated the need for much of their session modifications, as they rapidly adopt good ideas (floating panels anyone? Ahh yes, Plasma has got you).

They’re also extremely nimble when it comes to changing course on their backend. They went from having a buggy Wayland session to having the most stable one by far. They also take criticism far better, either taking it in stride or recognizing then they did something off-base.

Gnome can go to hell, and fuck the stupid ass GTK which is objectively inferior to QT. Redhat can nibble on my shit too for all I care.

This money would have been far better given to KDE instead of the assholes at Gnome.

Yes but it’s very much an afterthought. Their notion of using containers and the Job Objects is largely a bolted on approach. If you look into the Job Objects, that would be what I can think of as the closest equivalent.

That’s an absolutely correct and very relevant point. On any equivalent computational loads, Linux comes out ontop. Better scheduler, better I/O, better stack.

Combination, and it depends on the game. Dxvk will add latency, but depending on the renderer and how the game runs the reduction in CPU overhead by using dxvk instead of native can provide performance gains, especially on certain CPU’s.

On games with a native vulkan renderer, Linux will most often just be faster since you have less system overhead burden. This has been fascinating to see though.

• First the games started to become playable, but framerates weren’t so great.
• Framerates started to improve
• Framerates started to become a wash between Windows vs Linux
• We are progressing into this step: it either runs comparably or better.

The results are mixed right now, and it’s going to be real hard to nail down predictability as far as performance goes. More often than not, so long as DRM isn’t involved, games run really well on day one. Older games are starting to see a performance uplift and reliability improvements through proton/dxvk/vkd3d.

I’m very happy though that what we’re talking about is comparable performance metrics. We use to be content if the shit ran at all.

Google has proven to be outstanding in showing off limited corporate attention span and fad chasing. Not sure why the Sony boss has anything to fear from Google.

So idk the drama, didn’t see it or what happened, but I do know /r/linux was a place I didn’t enjoy nor felt welcome as it was a hostile echo chamber.

I would like to see this mod’s reaction to this claim though, and perhaps elaborate on it. I’m looking for a nice Fedora community and there’s not too many users on either instance yet.

[Edit]Oh shit I’d still be curious to hear Cap’s side of it. [Edit Edit] Actually no, after reviewing the history associated, Cap is a complete fucking asshole power tripping motherfucking douchebag piece of shit fuckhead. Nobody should be using this community, we all need to get the hell out of here. Oh my god what a piece of shit asshole.

You’re mostly there, but the big issue now is their handling of Xwayland. nVidia also doesn’t expose VRR/GSync under Wayland (but an engineer remarked that it’s slated for the 545 series release on the nVidia Linux forums).

The most glaring issue currently that effectively blocks Wayland for nVidia users is the lack of implicit sync on their end, and the Xwayland developers refusal to merge nVidia’s proposed explicit sync method. This is oversimplifying but the short version is from nVidia “implicit sync is too slow, it architecturally conflicts with our driver forcing a comprehensive rewrite, and we don’t want to look bad with implicit sync’s performance”. The response from X devs boils down to “You weren’t there when we planned all this, implicit sync works fine, explicit sync won’t benefit how the Mesa drivers work so this would only be for your benefit, and you’ve been complete assholes”.

Neither side looks like it’s going to flinch, so getting Wine to run in Wayland is the only feasible solution for nVidia users. In an all-wayland environment with no applications running under Xwayland, Mutter and plasma-wayland run like a dream, it’s a great experience.

To the contrary, it’s more about the maturity and handling of XWayland itself. The developers are targeting AMD, specifically Mesa 23.x. The gains experienced by nVidia users is solely due to the optimizations made to the XWayland implementations. As far as “general use” for nVidia users, Wayland is blocked by the XWayland implicit sync standoff. nVidia refuses to support implicit sync because of “performance issues” while the X devs refuse to implement explicit sync because “Fuck you, nVidia!”.

This is the root cause for what you’re experiencing, and isn’t improved by any Wayland protocol support. It has entirely to do with the implicit sync stack that exists within Xwayland and nVidia’s lack of support for implicit sync entirely. nVidia proposed an explicit sync method in another merge request that was shot down by the X devs as they “don’t solve anything for the Mesa driver” by supporting explicit sync as a concept. Explicit sync is a concept that has less of a performance penalty, and other vendors support the notion of switching to it, but nVidia’s hostile relationship with the X developers and FOSS as a whole has caused roadblocks at present where the projects don’t wish to collaborate with nVidia’s proposals.

So to summarize, this is exclusively an Xwayland issue, nVidia and the developers have disagreed as to how to proceed, and neither side shows any signs of flinching. nVidia is hard nosed about implicit sync and refuses to implement it in their driver for various reasons, and the Xwayland devs are being hard nosed and absolutely refuse to accept nVidia’s merge requests for adding explicit sync support for reasons relating to what I can tell is basically “bad blood” between the groups. Even if the project accepts explicit sync, nVidia still has to add the feature to their release pipeline, which would put it past the 545 release some months down the road. Again, even if everyone agreed effective today, we still wouldn’t see resolution on this until early 2024 at the soonest. Xwayland will remain broken for nVidia users basically for all time, at the present rate of development. Our applications will all be ported to Wayland before this gets fixed.

Sorry for the soapbox moment, but, it has been incredibly frustrating to see this all play out.