Linux 7.2 has landed, dragging x86 timing clean out of the nineties by making the Time Stamp Counter mandatory.
I wrote up a quick article on why ditching those ancient legacy fallbacks is good housekeeping, plus a few other bits like cache-aware scheduling and memory tweaks worth noting.
Is anyone still using legacy hardware? If so, what do you use it for?
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I wonder when x86 will be completely removed.
when all x86 production stops, we can give it 20-30 years from then.
Just a quick reminder: NetBSD still has it and will very likely in the foreseeable future
I mean what can’t run NetBSD? I feel like we should start writing drivers in rumpkernels instead of writing drivers for our OS’s.
It makes more sense to do this in a major upgrade like from kernel 6 to 7 but some cleanup is good.
major upgrade like from kernel 6 to 7
What do you mean? The Linux kernel doesn’t follow SemVer.
The 6.19 -> 7.0 version bump didn’t have any more inherent meaning than 7.0 -> 7.1 or 7.1 -> 7.2.
It’s only because Linus doesn’t like big numbers or something like that
Yay, reduced functionality 🥳
How dare they. We should also demand that they bring back support for i386 and SUN-4.
MOS 6502 support when?
My man were talking about hardware from like the 90s lol. Linux is amazing on keeping old hardware going, but even it has to move on at some point.
Virtually nobody is going to run kernel 7.2 on a 90s CPU without a time stamp chip. Its good practice to prune old and largely unused features once and a while
Also kernel 6.12 has support until 2035, so it’s not like anyone running these CPUs would be missing out on security updates for a while.
With an ifdef.
No, cause that means keeping that code maintained when things change too. So basically, no difference
I’m sure you’ll be devastated to learn that Linux stopped supporting the i386 in 2012.
And this change basically just drops support for the i486. In 2026. 13 years after they dropped support for the i386. Those processors came out in 1985 and 1989 respectively. If this keeps up, we might lose support for the first Pentium CPUs (released in 1993) around 2040…
I couldn’t imagine running a modern OS on those chips, or even how I would go about installing it. We are talking about computers pre-USB and CD-ROM drives. Average hard disks were under 100MB, average ram was under 10MB. The rare specialty distros that can fit on a floppy are likely heavily modifying their kernals to work / fit anyway. I don’t understand why people are outraged by this.
It’s easy to understand. They are objectively fucking stupid and like to be outraged for the sake of it. That or they are literally trolls
These people are literally not worth any amount of effort to pay attention to if they are the former and if they are the latter then remember rule 1. Don’t feed the trolls.
There’s just a few vocals not the majority. I know we still have a few i486 running and even 1 i386 running. There not connected to anything and just perform the same simple task they have for decades so updates are virtually meaningless. Not uncommon in power, water, rail, and other utilities.
You know, Windows98 is still available
on archive.org
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You spell ReactOS so weird.
Perhaps my grandchildren would spell it correctly.
Is ReactOS still alive?
Why on earth you are still relying on 30+ year old CPU’s? Are you a supermarket owner on a third world country?
Utilities still use them. If it’s not broke, why fix it.
Those devices also don’t get updated, touched or fucked with. So any changes to newer kernels matter as much as as the answer to what fucking dirt taste like.
It literally doesn’t. So being mad at the removal is fucking retarded.
Hey sir, supermarket owners in 3rd world countries use newer stuff, no need to shit on us as if we were still living in the stone age.
Only George RR Martin in his little old Wordstar word processor would run on a 486 computer with DOS. And I doubt he is a Linux user, or if he is making updates to make his Kernel up-to-date with the current releases.
Some people are.
No - nobody is still using one that would be running a modern distro. Anyone relying on hardware this old is already managing their own ecosystem of software.
We’re talking about computers that have clock speeds in the megahertz range FFS. They’re slower than an ESP32 and take a lot more power.
Nothing of value was lost.
Maybe, but I think that they will not upgrade the system, even without this change there is no reason to use a 7.x kernel on a 30+ Yeats old hardware
I’m pretty sure any Rpi is more powerful, smaller, and more efficient than any computer hardware from 30 years ago lol.
True, but imagine the cost of having to set that up as a third world market owner
Less than the cost of the power of running a 35 year old CPU for a year I’m pretty sure. They still have to pay for electricity in the third world. And wages. If your employees take a bunch of extra time to do really simple things on the computer, that also costs money.
Could also probably get a couple grand for a working i486 PC at this point, it’s a museum piece.
Could also probably get a couple grand for a working i486 PC at this point
Yes, clean it up and sell it as a “vintage gaming PC”. You can get some good money for them now. You won’t get a couple grand unless it’s something rare though.
Yeah God forbid the poor still use a secure and updated OS…
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No “poors” are running a 486. You would take the best part of and hour to boot a modern distro on a 66MHz (that’s 0.066GHz for you kids) 486. That’s if it would boot at all - which it likely wouldn’t.
Omg. You people are ridiculous. 🤣
If you’re using a 30+ year old computer in the modern day, you’ve already sacrificed security.
The price and availability of a 15 year old computer is almost the same as a 30 year old computer, you can get a fully functional 1st gen i5 PC that will sprint circles around the highest end 90’s PC for $40. Honestly, most people are just e-wasting computers that old, I’m sure you could easily get them for free, hell, lots of people would pay you to take them off their hands.
i486 is an antique now. It’s an artifact more expensive than less-ancient PCs.
It would require quite an expert to setup with a 7.X kernel, especially with network access.
I’m all for old hardware support, but there’s basically no scenario where this hurts anyone struggling to get by.
Like they would run on a i368 or i468 cpu. They run pentium 2, at least. And guess what, those are still supported ( basically pentium 1 and up )
Yup. Linux isn’t what it used to be anymore.
You’re right, it’s way better.
Time to ask for a refund of the 0 money you paid to use it.
That’s not an individual problem, but you liberals only work in an individual and monetary logic. The Evil Empire’s propaganda is efficient.
Dude. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in spite of your instance. You actually succeeded only in being disappointing. Do better.
You have more faith in humanity than me. Thanks for being a good example of being a better persons.
This is so lemmy.ml it hurts. I’m bookmarking this comment, thank you.
You’re welcome, liberal. Hm, do you realize who were the liberals among the 4 nations?
Water tribe is the closest since they actually elect their leaders, but I wouldn’t even go that far. Fire nation are fascists who most definitely don’t hold elections, even sham ones like a liberal democracy being overtaken by fascists. Earth kingdom is pretty much a stand-in for China. Air nomads are probably closest to Tibet if anything.
Weird that you have to go into a user’s profile to make an argument though.
Do you realize they elect their leaders, or representants, in China? Do you know a lick about the Chinese system? Liberalism is proto facism, every liberal government was licking Hitler’s boots in the 1930s, so the Fire Nation is what happens after the ultimate Liberalism, in which unchecked competition and social darwinism win. Do air nomads have slavery like they do in Tibet? And the Earth Kingdom is way more akin to the late Feudal/Early National Mercantilist European regions.
It was worth, because we had this conversation.
What are you using the old x86 timing functionality for, or rather what would it be needed for?
edit: I’m not trying to be a dick or be interrogative, I’m genuinely asking.
You make it sound like no one can just go keep the older hardware alive by forking.
People can just make the old hardware alive by using an older Linux version. Why the fork is even needed?
The fairy tale of fork freedom, just like the fairy tale of market freedom.
Y’all are really pathetic.
Sir, I think you are overreacting. Nobody is running a 7+ Linux Kernel on a 486 machine. Even if you have microcontrollers with a 486 instruction set, I am pretty sure they already fixed the timestamp issue, or they don’t need Linux at all since it’s an embedded application.
I love the “just fork it” argument.
Look, Elon, maybe we can’t solo a project like that if we’re still using old hardware, okay?
Sorry if that made you frown behind your shades. Ask the poolside waiter for a other cocktail.
I mean, most of the success of Linux comes from the freedom to solve local issues the way you want.
There have come lots of issues solved with a departure from the project from a need that drove the change. Want Debian without systemd? Devuan.
So yes, literally, if it’s important to you, you can fork it. Whether that takes a big lift or not doesn’t mean you’re any less free to do so.
I’m not what I used to be
"downvotes won’t change the reality, corpo boot lickers
You are wrong and incapable of admitting it. Downvoting your comment is an efficient way of signaling that.
This happens every time I point put that losing these “old” kernel capabilities is in fact a loss.
Let them be stupid about it, all the code still exists to undo these bad decisions one day. It’ll just be more work than it would otherwise be to fix what they broke.
I put them in the same category as AI sycophants, they can’t see three feet beyond their own nose.
Why don’t you support a Linux distro that runs on prehistoric hardware?
It’s very easy to spend other peoples time than offer your own for something you clearly don’t care enough about.
If you missed the comment. Previous kernel version is supported until 2035. That’s 9 more years. You need any longer than that?
What exactly is the utility of the code, though? Is it so these really ancient machines stay up-to-date/secure in societal collapse or something?
I’d be sympathetic to that, but the chips this depreciates are so rare that you won’t find many to use, in that scenario… and in the rare exceptions, using an older kernel version would be fine.
How many hundreds of megabytes were saved by removing it?
Also an AMD K5 or IBM/Cyrix 6x86 might not be in your Steam Deck but that doesn’t make it a one off exception. There’s no reason we should have to use outdated software when the reason the new software doesn’t work is artificial. Apple does that kind of nonsense, Linux shouldn’t.
…You’re talking about saved megabytes being trivial, in reference to machines that have megabytes of memory in total?
It’s not about saved space anyway, it’s about support. Some features are compromised by the requirement to keep this old code, though I’m not qualified to say to what extent.
And again, who is “we?”
Who’s still using a Cyril 6x86 that isn’t doing it for personal/recreational reasons? If society collapses, how many would there be to use?
I’d be sympathetic if we were talking about, say, a Pentium 4, but just don’t buy the narrative that this is inconveniencing anyone. These things do not exist as utilitarian devices anymore. It’s not making anyone use outdated, insecure software that isn’t choosing to do so anyway.
Some features are compromised by the requirement to keep this old code, though I’m not qualified to say to what extent.
“Trust me bro”
Who’s still using a Cyril 6x86 that isn’t doing it for personal/recreational reasons?
In your estimation clearly nobody. You’re evading the question of why they should be artificially forced to use outdated software by denying enthusiasts who want to use a kernel built by an enthusiast and then by a bunch of enthusiasts for enthusiasts exist. 🤦♂️
Short-sighted kids are a little more common after we fired the mentors and documenters in our field: they don’t know how or why we did such dumb things before and thus can’t avoid them. It’s like how America fired all its inspectors and now suffer en masse from salmonella and explosive diarrhea from tainted food: causal.
